I dunno, you make a bit of turbocider, just to see, and it seems to be as good as average shop cider, so you make loads more over the months, evolving the recipe until you reckon it's not at all bad, and you've always enjoyed it, and so has everybody who's tried it, and then you spot some draught cider in the local wholefood shop and the next thing you know you're buying litres of that coz it's really nice and puts your homemade to shame. Well not shame exactly, but I'm going to have to up my game. Got to make it fuller and more appley. Some chopped Bramley and a bit of extra sugar - or honey or golden syrup maybe - might help. Kinda stops being turbocider and crosses the line into just cider once you start having more than 4 items in the recipe and you need pectolase and maybe a 2 stage fermentation though.